paradise-lost Friday 24 June 2022

94 messages9 people

SollyTeam00:21
Middle click is occupied
We could prioritise the offhand, though
Hisami00:28
ye
Katie02:51
Man hearing tonnes of people really hate the 1.12 Aether II builds is quite disheartening 😭 Though I cannot blame them cos I am not happy with them either
just really puts into perspective how big a task it's gonna be clawing back anything resembling a positive reputation for the project
Larry Cable Guy03:24
I never played it much, but what was so bad about 1.12 Aether II?
A
AzzyypaarasTeam03:26
Replying toLarry Cable GuyI never played it much, but what was so bad about 1.12 Aether II?
Everything ~~I didn't play it either~~
- 🔥1
Katie03:56
Development had a lot of issues that caused a tonne of poorly thought out experimental features to make their way into public builds
as well as actual important core content being ignored in favour of whatever the fuck the active coders wanted to work on
couple that with proprietary and very experimental technology behind world gen, AI, structure gen and even equipment
and you just have a big mess of an alpha
experiments included stuff like separating the inventory of the player between content within the mod and outside the mod
so you couldn't bring items in or bring them out
AzzyypaarasTeam03:57
Katie03:58
which was ridiculously anti-player and a terrible design decision
the traditional portal was also fully removed for no reason other than to support a lot of the experiments around separating the mods content from the base game
NPC interactions and an RPG style dialogue system were forced into the mod early on despite not being relevant to the planned content
and were even within themselves poorly designed and difficult to work on
this also extended to an utterly pretentious and unnecessary intro/prologue sequence that included a weird graphical cutscene and an empty unfinished prologue area
terrain was bland because of unfinished generation tools
err what else
AzzyypaarasTeam04:00
You really, really were dead set on making a game instead of a mod, weren't you?
Katie04:01
art design suffered due to burn out on the art team because working on new content was miserable due to the attitude of the coding side of the team
kingbdogz wanted to make it its own thing
really
AzzyypaarasTeam04:01
Yeah, it was at some point planned to actually be its own game, right?
Katie04:01
and it was very difficult to push back on that given he is credited as the Aether dude
eehh it was always designed as a mod but we had other design docs around a possible Aether game that shared elements
so I think there was some cross pollination in those ideas which hurt the project
But yeah almost all the stuff I've listed, despite me literally being the project manager at the time, is stuff I did not want, thought would hurt the mod and that players would dislike
but ye I was basically overruled in most cases
eventually leading to me just being taken off that position all together
(which caused the immediate death of all productivity I might add)
but yeah going forward I'm very much so in the pilot seat again and won't let people mess with the mod's direction anymore
so hopefully that results in a better mod but idk if the wider community are gonna give me another chance to prove that really
AzzyypaarasTeam04:05
Ah, I am sure they will
Katie04:06
It'll take a lot of work on my end. But tbh I'm just gonna primarily focus on making the mod and ensuring it follows my vision for it as closely as possible
AzzyypaarasTeam04:06
If such weren't the case, then there wouldn't be so many peeps supporting what ya'll are doing and mingling about in aethercord, would there?
Katie04:06
then when it's done and released people can judge it
if it's shit then, well that's fair enough
but it's the fact that my reputation is entirely based on a mod that's 100% filled to the brim with shit I tried to stop that makes me quite angry about the whole situation
like other people made shit work and Im the one who has to take the credit for it
so ye just gonna get the mod done and if people don't like it then that'll be something actually based on my work
and if people like it then that'll be nice too
Duplex04:17
Replying toKatiebut ye I was basically overruled in most cases
overruled by who?
Katie04:19
I'd rather not name names and point fingers but it was basically just the programmers on our team
Duplex04:19
ah ok
Katie04:19
they sorta refused to implement things as designed and just went off on their own bullshit
and because most of them were older than me or obviously had more technical knowledge than me they'd use those things to justify ignoring my decisions, advice and direction despite me technically on paper being in charge
it was not fun
I have a much more positive and collaborative team now though
so we shouldnt have those same problems going forward
Duplex04:20
that is good
Jack PapelTeam05:19
Replying toGhabby- Second point, shorter this time: it rains in the Aether? I mean, the Aether is located…
We actually went back and forth quite a bit on custom chests. The team was truly at a standstill, so we put it to a public vote. The public decided they wanted custom chests
SollyTeam05:45
We could always not register them unless a chest variant mod is installed
Jack PapelTeam05:59
That was brought up
~~by me~~
SollyTeam06:00
#unknown pls
AzzyypaarasTeam06:01
Imho, this is a done discussion
Perhaps if it had been our choice, but the community said what it wanted
We left it up to them, and so it will be
Jack PapelTeam06:06
Yup
DafuqsTeam08:22
~~if you ask the question: do you want feature X, the answer will be yes close to every time, though. Even if that feature is complete garbage from a gameplay/design perspective~~
Jack PapelTeam08:25
~~that's what I said~~
~~Im pretty sure we haven't held a vote since~~
AzzyypaarasTeam08:26
~~ok but chest wood variants are good~~
DafuqsTeam08:55
That is why I always include ~ 10 features in my votes and then pick the ones most players voted for
Get's both players and creators priorities straigt, IMO
Katie11:20
When doing feature request surveys the best way to approach it is to leave things reasonably open ended rather than asking "Do you want X?"
like you could ask "what changes/additions would you like for modded variants of vanilla blocks?"
and then if, unprompted, you get a lot of responses asking for chest variants
you know it's actually something people actively feel would be beneficial
instead of people just saying yes to things they're presented with
AzzyypaarasTeam21:26
Replying toKatieinstead of people just saying yes to things they're presented with
~~shhhh, if you keep on like this they are going to remember it was rigged for chest variants to win~~
Ghabby23:40
Replying toHisami"low durability "more efficient" heard of gold?
AHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA The first time I played this game, during my very first hour of play, I was told "don't use the gold tools, they are useless except for enchanting". Afterwards, seeing nobody using them, I assimilated this information. I'm so ashamed to learn such a basic thing xD But, well, gold is certainly efficient, and certainly very fragile, but I imagined a less fragile (a bit less) and more efficient gravel - so my idea is VERY stupid!(edited)
Hisami23:41
gold is the fastest and weakest
AzzyypaarasTeam23:41
The most useless, too
If only because it has shitall for a mining level
iirc it can't even mine redstone?
Ghabby23:41
Replying toHisamigold is the fastest and weakest
Yes, and I'm so ashamed to hear that after almost 7 years of playing 😭
Hisami23:42
lol
AzzyypaarasTeam23:43
Replying toGhabbyBut without this feature, Gravitite is not that special anymore. I then remembered…
So I didn't really answer to this
But gravitite... we have plans for it, but it is likely not going to change much from how it is
Gravitite is really intended to be ~diamond level, and it is going to be far from a top tier material in the mod
It is not going to be netherite of the mod by any means, and the mod itself is going to scale past that
Though the ideas you proposed are interesting, they are best explored in another material imhp
Ghabby23:53
Replying toKatieMan hearing tonnes of people really hate the 1.12 Aether II builds is quite…
I think there is a misunderstanding: I never said I hated Aether II 1.12, nor that it was bad, just that it disappointed me terribly (since Aether I and Aether II 1.7 (and now Paradise Lost) are my favorite mods and I was looking forward to the release of 1.12 at the time!) Don't worry, I'm not anti-Aether II Highlands! ❤️ I had several hours of fun on it - but I was very bored afterwards, as I didn't experience the fun of the old Aether mods: - In Aether I and II, the celestial dimension is made up of lots of little islands. Some on top of the others. You have to manage to go from one island to another, not to fall at the slightest step or blow, and you discover a lot of things hidden here and there. This is really the greatest pleasure I had in Aether: the ORIGINAL exploration that this mod offered! Even the End of 1.9 doesn't offer that (and it's empty anyway). In Highlands, you have only BIG, flat islands, very separated from each other. In the end, if you put water between each island (which doesn't change much), you end up with an overworld-like dimension. And I think that's a shame, considering all the possibilities that the old versions offered! The verticality was all its charm. Going in such a different direction doesn't make Aether II Highlands specifically bad... it just makes it "not Aether" in my eyes. I say "in my eyes", I insist!(edited)
- Many people do, but I didn't like the art direction, which is no longer cubic at all - while the blocks that make up the world remain cubic... there is a clear separation between Gilded Games' and Mojang's art direction, which breaks the game. Even if you consider "Aether II Highlands" as a "separate game", you can't help but see "Minecraft + a mod with polygons". This is, once again, my feeling! - Finally, the lore. At the time I was playing, I didn't speak English (and I think the lore was very absent from the mod), so I couldn't enjoy it. And... well, I didn't feel like it, because I wanted to play Aether, a mod that adds a dimension to Minecraft, to extend my enjoyment of Minecraft. Making a separate game with a mod is a good idea, but keeping the base game in it, it kind of breaks the credibility of the mod. "You have a story in a game with no story, the two are very separate", it feels weird. It's no longer a mod that adds a dimension. Again, and I'll say this one last time, this is just my feeling! The mod is still good in my eyes and has FULL of good ideas though!
Ghabby23:54
Replying toAzzyypaarasBut gravitite... we have plans for it, but it is likely not going to change much from…
I can't wait to see what you come up with! As long as it's original and interesting, I'm good with that!
Ghabby23:56
Replying toSollyWe could prioritise the offhand, though
That's what came to my mind at first, and then I thought "but then this option will be used even less, and it will be even more useless than it already is". So I thought a little (too little, I was lazy I admit). Nevertheless I trust you, as I said to Azzy!
Katie23:57
Replying toGhabbyI think there is a misunderstanding: I never said I hated Aether II 1.12, nor that it…
I didn't meant to imply that your comments were that you hated the mod. Just that most people Ive seen comment on the mod have hated it 😄
Its worth noting that everything you've listed there is also, for the most part, my feelings as well
and I am deeply frustrated by the state of the project, which was largely derailed by people who, in my honest opinion, did not know at all what was best for the mod whatsoever
But yeah what Im trying to say is that the stuff you don't like about the Highlands version you played is all stuff I also dislike and am aiming to change significantly as we continue developing the mod